Great conversation. Reminds me of an early Medium piece of mine https://medium.com/illumination/why-is-it-so-easy-for-people-to-believe-the-most-obvious-lies-yet-require-proof-of-god-339a2a07cc4f in which I wrote, "Because I look around at the wonders of the universe and achievements by humans both small and large from which divine influence is inferable,

and as I like to say with a phrase I learned in law school and long ago repurposed — res ipsa loquitor. Evidential proof is not required when the thing speaks for itself."